• What core values are and why they’re important (1:55)
  
  
• Examples of core values (2:24)
  
  
• What core values are excellent predictors of and why (3:26)
  
  
• How to distinguish your core values vs. society’s values (3:58)
  
  
• What happens in relationships when one partner’s values are different than the others (5:32)
  
  
• The danger of looking to our partner to fulfill our values – and what to do instead (7:00)
  
  
• How to find points of alignment or shared values in relationships even when you don’t align on everything (9:26)
  
  
• Tools couples can use to explore their individual and shared values – and why that’s so important (17:18)
  
  
• When to have the conversation about shared values and when to practice self-compassion first (20:51)
  
  
• Key questions to ask your partner to gain a better understanding of your individual and shared values (22:02)
  
  
• Steve’s story about how identifying the underlying core values of a disabled roofer moved him from a depressed state of stuckness into his (unlikely!) dream job (23:45)
  
  
• The wisdom of the old saying “Careful what you wish for, you may just get it!” (32:04)
  
  
• How loved we feel when our partner knows our core values and supports us in going for them, even when it’s not a shared value (35:48)
  
  
• What we can do when we don’t feel supported by our partner in our core values (37:27)
  
  
• How to start with self-compassion when tending to a relationship wound  – and why that’s so empowering (39:17)

Michelle Becker [00:00:02]

Hi everyone. I’m Michelle Becker and you’re listening to the well-connected relationships podcast. In today’s episode we’ll be talking with Dr. Steve Hickman about the role values play in our lives and in our relationships. I first met Steve in a teacher training for the mindfulness based cognitive therapy program. He was one of the instructors and I learned that he was also from San Diego and was the executive director for the UC San Diego Center for Mindfulness which he founded. Eventually he brought me on as a Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction teacher although my stint with that program was brief because in January of 2012 I found the Mindful self compassion program and introduced Steve to that program. We began teaching the program together and eventually developing the teacher training for MSE along with DRS Gerber and Neff. 

Steve is now the executive director for the Center for Mindful self compassion. He’s also a licensed psychologist. Steve and I have taught together for many years now and as co teachers do, we’ve worked out a rhythm of who teaches what. Steve’s a very entertaining teacher and he loves to illustrate the concepts through story. One of the topics I most enjoy hearing him teach is the topic of core values. He’s agreed to talk with me today to discuss core values especially as they show up in our relationships. Welcome Steve. Thanks for joining us today.

Steve Hickman [00:01:44]

Thanks for having me. Always a joy and an adventure to be with you.

Michelle Becker [00:01:52]

Absolutely I feel the same way. So could you talk a little bit about what core values are and why they’re important.

Steve Hickman [00:02:00]

Sure. I think a great way to think about core values is is they are something like our inner compass. They give us a sense of direction and focus and purpose whether we’re, fully tuned into them or not. So these are the things that we value the most. When you dig down deep underneath the surface things like, who you’re with or what you do for a living or where you live or how you conduct your life, are these guiding principles these guiding core values. So it might be things like trust or respect or compassion or creativity or adventure or stability or peace or nature; different kinds of things that that are important to us and in some of them are more universal. Most humans wish to be happy and free from suffering things like that and then others are a little more varied from person to person which is what gives us our individual flavor so to speak why we’re not all the same. Some of us value these things differently. So they are these compass points for us that are deeply held. And like you said sometimes we’re not necessarily aware of them but they actually tend to predict our our happiness and satisfaction and therefore also predict when we’re dissatisfied or unhappy because when we’re value something, and yet for some reason we’re in a lot not living in alignment with it, we struggle. When you don’t feel satisfied. We feel unhappy. Whether we understand why it or not. So these core values really do play a big role in our lives whether we’re aware of them or not.

Michelle Becker [00:03:49]

That’s really cool. You listed a bunch of examples of core values which were great but some of them like honesty, I wonder how do we distinguish those how do we know if that’s my value or if that’s just something I’ve been trained by society I should value? A social norm if you will.

Steve Hickman [00:04:09]

I think there are a lot of values that exist as social norms that one should be respectful or kind or patient or some of these sorts of things where it is a bit of an expectation of our society that we would conduct ourselves that way. But I think where we vary is in the degree to which we align with that particular value that we actually hold it for ourselves. So it’s not whether or not we value trust but how important trust is to me relative to how important trust is to you or a sense of safety or stability for example. So there may be a norm of these things but each of us maybe varies in the degree to which we we feel it’s important relative to other things. Some of us value adventure, for example like jumping out of airplanes and riding motorcycles and all that sort of thing and some don’t. But nonetheless we all even the most timid among us the ones that are the least adventurous may still have a sense of adventure. It’s just relative to other things it’s not as intense or it’s not as important to us.

Michelle Becker [00:05:28]

Well that makes sense. How does this unfold in the context of our relationships. Like what do we do if if I value adventure and my partner maybe values it but much less than I do.

Steve Hickman [00:05:42]

Yeah. I’ve been thinking about this a little bit and I think it has a little bit to do with how aware we are of these core values. If we are tuned into what’s important to us then we also find ourselves looking for people that align with us you know just thinking about why one might be attracted to someone else. It might be in search of other people who have similar kinds of values to us in some regards, but also we all are growing and changing so we may be looking to someone who who brings something into our lives that we long to have more of. Maybe you are someone who’s had a pretty sedate life and there’s a part of you to that kind of desires. You know you’re not going to jump out of airplanes but you wouldn’t mind driving around in a fast car or whatever it might be. Or the same thing would be if you know you’ve been kind of socially more isolated but you’d like to be a little more engaged a little more sense of connection with other people you might be drawn to someone who augments that, you know who is a little more adept at interacting with other people that you could kind of ride on their coattails to a certain degree. 

So I think that’s one area. The awareness piece is really important because we also can’t look to other people to fulfill those values entirely. You know the burden is still on us as humans as individual humans to look at what’s important to us and make sure we are able to get what we need. If we have a need to be taken care of and we latch on to someone who is a caregiver, that sort of meets a need in the beginning. It fills a hole so to speak but that sets up a real challenge going forward. If one feels like one needs another person in order to know, what it’s that line from Jerry Maguire? “You complete me”, which is a bunch of baloney as far as I’m concerned. But people that we do that right we feel like something’s missing and this person is going to fill that void. And for a little while it does but really in the long term you know that’s not very fulfilling it’s not sustainable. We need to figure out a way to meet our own need for care, for example in this example. Just like that other person who might be drawn to to provide care or support to other people you know he’s going to get depleted if they get paired up with someone who’s a you know a never ending desire for more care or more support. So we if we’re aware of these things we can find healthy ways of aligning with those values and finding partners that that you know, align with those that support us and those values but aren’t the sole provider of the need underneath I guess.

Michelle Becker [00:08:37]

Well I think that’s right I love the example you’re using in terms of somebody wanting to be cared for and somebody else being kind of a caretaker. It might feel good in the beginning as you’re as you’re saying, but it really sets up more of a parent child kind of dynamic in the relationship which is not a healthy dynamic to have in the relationship. We really want two fully functioning adults with their own sense of agency you know. Yeah so. So I appreciate that when you were talking about having a sense of adventure and jumping out of an airplane for example. You know, how would it be if one person in the in the couple had that sense of adventure and the other person was like yeah no. I’m jumping out of an airplane. How would that be in terms of the relationship? What if your values differ in some ways like that?

Steve Hickman [00:09:34]

Yeah I think the over-simplistic way of dealing with that would be to say well you know, just don’t get together which, doesn’t work too well necessarily. But I think this again I think it has something to do with awareness and this is maybe where mindfulness fits in here that if you are aware that you have competing values or not competing values but different values that get expressed you know there isn’t just one or two. We have a whole array of different values and we may align in some really core areas around respect and trust and loyalty and things like that that we could align with and then we also take a certain amount of joy from our partners being able to do the things that bring them joy whether or not they necessarily are the main thing for us. So a little bit of complementarity I guess is the word can be really helpful. 

I’m calling to mind someone a colleague of ours. She and her partner are beautifully compatible. They have a beautiful house and a garden that they love and they really treasure that home and that garden and working in the garden and doing various things. But one partner loves to be home. They’re a total homebody she doesn’t like to get out and about. She’s completely satisfied in her creative pursuits and and all of that. And the other partner travels quite a bit in teaching mindfulness and as you know likes that sense of adventure of being able to travel and they have a long standing relationship that’s been very positive and fulfilling for both because they recognized what brought them joy was some amount of activity that was shared and some that was separate. That they they also appreciated their time alone that was also fulfilling in its own way. So again I think it has something to do with talking about these things and kind of exploring and reflecting on them and in seeing you know can I feel supportive even when my partner isn’t around because they’re doing something else? Do I get some joy from my partner pursuing things that make them happy but don’t really matter much to me and vice versa?

Michelle Becker [00:11:52]

Exactly I think that you’re hitting on a really important point which is to be in a really happy relationship, we need to value not just our own happiness but that of our partner as well. And there’s an opportunity to take some pleasure in them getting what they really need what’s deeply meaningful to them. What’s a core value for them.

Steve Hickman [00:12:13]

Yeah yeah. And again I think it still comes back to each partner knowing the other’s core values. You know maybe seeing where there’s overlap and where there isn’t and then talking about what would support each person in pursuing or aligning with those core values more fully. So if we’re feeling dissatisfied in a relationship, I mean it seems to me in my experience of interacting with a lot of different folks as a psychologist and elsewhere, most of those kinds of dissatisfaction or or situations between two people where there’s a conflict like this it’s not because those two people aren’t compatible. It’s more a matter of a misunderstanding or mis appreciation of what’s going on for each person. 

So talking about it and then just to kind of add to the awareness piece you know one needs to be mindful of what’s important to you and are you aligning with those things that are important. But that takes a little bit of, or a lot of courage because it’s easier when we feel discomfort like, “oh I’m just not feeling listened to or I’m not feeling challenged by my partner” to just react right to say you know why don’t you listen to me you know and you’re just not supportive of me because we don’t. It doesn’t feel that we’re feeling unsupported and we don’t like to sit with difficult feelings and so we discharge them as quick as we can. So the focus can be on the other person if he or she would just get in line everything would be just fine. Instead of being able to sort of like stop long enough to notice wow like I’m uncomfortable! And first of all just acknowledge that. I see that it’s here and to maybe even be kind to yourself because it’s hard, you know like oh well this is difficult this is you know the practice of self compassion. 

Creating a space where we can actually learn from what’s coming up around discomfort or dissatisfaction or disrespect or whatever it is long enough to see wow I’m really feeling you know it isn’t so much that my partner did such and such it’s that right now I feel like overlooked and disregarded and I know I love this person and I don’t think they disregard me but this is how I’m feeling. So to be able to speak from that place to say you know when this happened this is how I felt, that’s huge. I mean having done a tiny bit of therapy with couples I know this is kind of a core concept right? Like speaking to how you actually feel. You know I statements and all that kind of good stuff is that is that stepping stone to making progress in a relationship or addressing a problem by being able to own your own feelings. And that’s you know it’s easy to say you need to do that. It’s hard to do because we’re we’re often dismissive of our own feelings over reactive to them. So to be able to make space for them really, is you know it is a solid foundation for making change.

Michelle Becker [00:15:22]

Yeah. And I think one of the things you’re pointing to here is it’s really important when you say you know our instinct is to tell our partner you know you need to do it differently. I don’t like the way you did it. You do it differently. So I don’t have this feeling. That instead we could pause and be with a feeling ourselves a little bit right and to open to oh what’s going on for me here to practice as you were talking about to practice some self compassion.

Steve Hickman [00:15:48]

Yeah absolutely. And you know you also have to think about the practicalities. So you know when has it ever work that you just turn to your partner and just say, you know, “you don’t listen to me enough, you don’t support me you don’t you know you don’t respect me you know you, need to do this. You know like I don’t think anybody in the history of relationships. Oh my goodness I should do that. I’ll do that right away sorry!

Michelle Becker [00:16:14]

Wouldn’t you just just fall over out of surprise if that happened?

Steve Hickman [00:16:18]

I think so. You know men especially have this thing about you know when your partner says I think you should do such and such, you say yes dear! Happy Happy wife happy life. Right? Which is it’s a ridiculous thing. In the short term it is there is some happiness there in the long term. That’s not so good. So it’s all about skating past our actual human emotions that are there for a reason that that actually you know make life rich. And help us to understand how things are going and what’s going on around us. And when we actually make room for them in this self compassionate way you know there’s so much potential in it.

Michelle Becker [00:17:01]

Yeah. And is there a way that that our core values can guide this? These discussions we have with our partner? How do core values show up in there.

Steve Hickman [00:17:10]

I used kind of a worksheet that I borrowed from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy work where it’s called a life dimension worksheet. I imagine one can find it if you googled it but it’s essentially saying, what are the different elements of your life? You know like intimate relationships, family relationships, Community, Spirituality, work. There’s ten of those are a few and it’s sort of a hub with spokes and the hub is you and the spokes are all these different dimensions of who we are as humans you know the different roles that we play. And it’s it’s really cool to just take each of those areas and say, What is it about that aspect of my life that’s important? And really to take the time to kind of reflect on it and look beneath the surface. 

So know you might say well intimate relationships and what’s important about this is my partner. But well what is it about your partner that that gives it value that it’s important to you? Is it that your partner is attentive as your partner is intelligent or you know adventurous or whatever? It is really drilling down within each of these areas to see what your, you know your set of kind of core core values might be. And you know that’s a cool thing for a person to do individually, but I think it would be a really beautiful collaborative effort for two partners to do the same. Like to work on it individually and then to look at it together and to see well where do we where do we align and where don’t we? And how does that show up in our lives? I mean if you have a little bit of a sense of adventure and willingness to grow in your relationship I think that would really be an interesting opportunity to kind of get to know each other and it’s in a completely different way.

Michelle Becker [00:19:10]

Well you know we do that work and the Compassion For Couples program right? The the individual core values and then looking at each of those and where are the overlaps where the shared values for this particular relationship. What’s the Care and Feeding of it. You know like if we have enough adventure together or travel together or. We like to be healthy or we like to exercise or whatever it is that when couples are doing those things together they know their relationship is healthier happier.

Steve Hickman [00:19:42]

Yeah I was also thinking that. So there’s a problem if we look to that other person to provide everything we’re looking for. Yeah. Rather than seeing where we can provide it for ourselves. But there’s there’s also the flip side of that which is like how you know what could I do that would be that would be supportive of you in being more in alignment with that value of you know nature is a value for you more than me. So what is it that I could do that would really support you in that? And you know be open to a lot of different possibilities including, you know going with the person into nature or taking care of some responsibility at home so that person can do it or whatever. Just being able to have that conversation. And these are the kind of conversations that are so much better had under the circumstances of where everyone is calm and happy and satisfied rather than in your laughing. You know this moment you know like the moment when you’re feeling totally unsupported and disrespected. It’s probably not the time to have a really productive conversation about aligning with each other’s values. So doing it choosing to do it at a time when things are calm and focused can make a big difference.

Michelle Becker [00:21:01]

Well and just to go back to what you were talking about earlier, that’s that’s actually the time for self compassion right. When we’re in that right that upset place. Um, tend to ourselves tend to our physiology then when we’re feeling a little more centered and grounded coming back and having that shared conversation.

Steve Hickman [00:21:20]

Exactly. Yeah. You know it’s it’s like anything else I guess you know you say you should do preventive maintenance on your car, but you know a lot of times you when you finally get around to like changing the battery in your car is when it dies and you’re stuck on the road somewhere. So this is how we are but whenever possible if we can do periodic maintenance on our relationship in the same way and have it sound more sexy than periodic maintenance would probably be a good thing too.

Michelle Becker [00:21:48]

Well yeah. And I don’t think it has to be a burden. I think it can actually be fun you know. It can be just a lighthearted conversation about Hey. So what are the things that really make you happy. What are the things or if you want to do it in terms of the relationship, what are the things we do together that really make you feel connected, really make you feel happy. You know?

Steve Hickman [00:22:12]

Yeah. And then going one layer below that is even better. What is it about these things that we enjoy doing together that that brings you joy you know so it’s like it’s the activity but even more so it’s like what does the activity bring to you?

Michelle Becker [00:22:28]

Yeah.

Steve Hickman [00:22:28]

What value does it align with, what need does it meet at the at the deeper level?

Michelle Becker [00:22:36]

Exactly. Exactly. You know and that’s the great you know relationship maintenance thing is you’re talking about but you know keeping a good thing going.

Steve Hickman [00:22:46]

Yeah there’s a there’s the fun part of it. I would think would also be the creative aspect of it. So when you get when you get unhooked from the specifics of it like if you find that doing something together is enjoyable but there’s only so much of it you can do. Oh I love it when we go on our skiing vacations because we get to do this and that we’re out in nature and we’re we’re doing something you know physically demanding together. So you may only be able to go skiing once a year or every other year or whatever but if you if you drill down to the to the underlying stuff about being outdoors and doing something that’s physically demanding or whatever use you can see oh look you know what we could do is, you know go running by the bay once a week or something like that. You just find new options and more freedom when you look below the surface.

Michelle Becker [00:23:44]

You know it reminds me of the story that you often tell about working with the roofer. Do you want to tell that story?

Steve Hickman [00:23:52]

Yeah. No no I was I was trying to angle over to that story anyway so yeah. Because I’m thinking about when you feel stuck. So you know we’re talking about this sort of uplifting moments from when we really have these beautiful opportunities as a couple to to find new ways to you know to to grow and to meet our needs and to be happy and things like that but also when we feel stuck when we when we can drill down a little further we really can make some big discoveries that can shift things so 

So the this story you’re referring to is I worked for several years with a Chronic Pain Clinic at UC San Diego and was referred a young man at one point who was super depressed. He was a roofer by trade his family had a roofing business. They’ve been putting roofs on houses for a few generations. I think he was the third or fourth generation that had been doing this work and he had always loved his work. Sadly he fell off one of those buildings he was putting a refined and really badly injured his his right arm and he was right handed and they were able to reconstruct it but he still had a lot of persistent pain and was never going to be able to physically do the job of a roofer which is what how he pictured the rest of his life going. And he was totally fine with that. You know with a vision for his life. 

So when that was taken away from him in the interview he was devastated. You just didn’t see an existence for him in the future. And so he was really depressed and he and he was referred to me we we only had a few sessions together but other than the physical limitation of his pain and his in his right arm he was able to do a lot of different things. And he was functional and basically every other way. And he just didn’t know where to begin and he felt like his life was over and we did this Life Dimension worksheet. We actually looked at his values. I had him reflect on his values. I just gave him the guidelines and let him reflect to decide what was important to him. Like below the surface of being a rougher. What was it that brought him joy. Well what did what were his core values. And he took the sheet home and he came back the next week and it was that was written all over I’d never seen anybody do that much work on this thing because I said when you decide what’s under something like like what is it about being a roofer? Then ask yourself whatever your answer is ask yourself what is there anything under that? Well what is it about that? And really drill down keep going down to you can’t go any further. 

And he really took this seriously and when he came back he had identified that he liked being outdoors, being part of a team, mentoring or apprenticing other people, and being able to create something. So these were I think there were maybe one or two others but these were you know really valuable to him and he was like, this really gets me thinking here like, I really I see now underneath this what is I could do. He didn’t know what to do with that. And and frankly we didn’t get a chance to meet for quite some time actually ran into him in the clinic about I don’t know maybe two months later he was like a different person. 

He was didn’t appear to be depressed at all was happy to see me and couldn’t wait to tell me that he had found his dream job that he was running a camp out in the woods for teenagers. So that was like so far removed from being a roofer. You know it’s not something I would have said to myself, “Oh hey, have you thought about running a camp for teens?” But it ticked all the boxes for him. Is he was running the program which he also it was leadership was one piece of it. He was getting to help these younger folks which was part of his sort of mentoring guiding thing. It was primarily outdoors and he was a part of a team. So I literally met all the requirements and that’s what it took to the satisfaction and the joy was identifying what the underlying core values were. And then just finding something else that fit was pretty remarkable actually.

Michelle Becker [00:28:18]

Yeah that it is a really it’s a remarkable story. I love that story and I I love it really also illustrates. You’re talking about an individual finding that from self, but it also illustrates what you were just talking about in terms of couples drilling down a little bit deeper, a little bit deeper to find what are the really the values in their relationship and how can they be together. It also illustrates in the workplace you know with Stephen Covey’s work years ago maybe it’s decades ago now. But you know coming up with a mission statement. Right. And most organizations have that. Statement about. What we’re about and where we’re going.

Steve Hickman [00:29:01]

Yeah. It’s a bit like it’s a personal mission statement in a way. You know I’m thinking as you say that just on that I don’t know if I want to call it the darker side of all of this but I’m still kind of preoccupied with this idea of of trying to fulfill your needs or align with your values by getting it from the other person. Just kind of have an example that I think is important when we’re not aware. And we and we’re just looking for the other person to give us what it is that we feel like we need in life and we’re not trying to get it ourselves but we’re trying to get it from some else. There’s a lot of frustration there so an example would be I used this example before, but if you’re someone who’s had a kind of chaotic history and and you’re feeling the chaos, you’re feeling uncomfortable, something you know you want something else you’re you’re suffering because there is a core value you have for predictability and safety and stability which is a natural thing that most people would want a fair amount of. And you you feel as if your life is spinning out of control or whatever. 

And so you look for the person who looks as rock solid stable as you can possibly find because you need stability. So that could work but only if you’re really aware that this is sort of a temporary solution so to speak. This is a you know a safe haven in a storm that so you can find your feet so that then you can create your own stability. Because the problem will be that if you’re used to a lot of unpredictability there’s a certain amount that you’ve accommodated and you’ve you’ve gotten adjusted to that and that rock solid person can be boring as a rock pretty quickly! It’s like oh my gosh you know you’re gonna take forever to make that decision? You know or like, Don’t you ever want to go out and have fun you know? Don’t you ever go to the deep end of the pool whatever it is? Because it’s not what you’re used to right. And then they’re like well this person’s no good for me they’re not measuring up because they’re so darn stable that I can’t handle it. You know that’s because you’re looking for it outside. If you had the inner stability that you were craving if you cultivated that through mindfulness and self compassion for example, you could see the other person’s perspective more easily and see that they’re not trying to do anything personally. They’re just being who they are and even better if you were aware going in that they would be less fewer surprises like that.

Michelle Becker [00:31:39]

So that’s a great example of how something can be appealing in the beginning. And when we really get it’s like my mother used to say be careful what you wish for.

Steve Hickman [00:31:50]

You know yeah you know I have to share this.

Michelle Becker [00:31:53]

Lest you get it!

Steve Hickman [00:31:54]

I have to share this story. So if that story sounded really real that’s because it’s an aspect of my own life. So I have to share this just because especially based on what you just said so. So that was me seeking stability from another person in my first wife who I am I whom I was married for twenty five years. I was without getting into the details I was craving stability predictability calm rational logical partner. Based upon my experience up until the point when I met my then wife in college. And she fit the bill — an engineer et cetera et cetera. And that was that was what what I felt like I needed and and we were together for a long time. And you know it was great for a while and then it wasn’t because it was a little too stable a little too calm and it was no fault of her own it was who I was looking for. I got exactly what I bargained for but I wasn’t happy because I basically had other core values that weren’t being met. So but the ironic thing is you know I would get frustrated because nothing was done impulsively. You know my ex would take forever to decide which refrigerator to buy or you know whether or not to take this trip or that trip or whatever and you know drove me nuts. 

So fast forward now happily married to my second and last wife who is is much different than my first wife and is a much more outgoing more adventurous sort of person and a little more in touch with her emotions et cetera et cetera. I’m not really comparing evaluating one versus the other they’re just different. And shortly after we got married she came home from a quick trip to Home Depot and said Oh by the way I bought all new appliances for the kitchen today! We had like vaguely discussed the possibility at some point getting new appliances in here it was. So it was and I was like well you know didn’t you like stop and call you know look up Consumer Reports and do price comparisons and all of this stuff? And I was like holy crap like I’m getting this is the experience of my ex-wife and she looked at me you know and said Why are you so impulsive blah blah blah. So I got a taste of my own medicine.

Michelle Becker [00:34:26]

Right. Careful what you wish for. Might I get it right. On whichever side. Yeah really. And I love also that you know your point about learning how to give ourselves what we need so we’re not dependent on our partner to give to us.

Steve Hickman [00:34:42]

And you’re not. Doesn’t mean you’re totally on your own. And like you know get it yourself and whatever need to be a hundred percent self reliant but you’re ultimately the one responsible for you and taking care of what you can. And then augmenting that with what you can get around you. It’s the you know it’s the. Nobody wants to be completely vulnerable and dependent on another person anyway.

Michelle Becker [00:35:09]

You know it reminds me of a I don’t know a little saying little with artwork that I used to have in my children’s bathroom as were growing up and it was a little poem that went something like, Take care crossing the street. Take care keeping warm feet. Take care eating right. Take care. Go to bed early at night. Take care of you. I care that you do. You know and I think that’s really the sentiment is, you know we each have to take care of ourselves but hopefully we’re in an environment where our partner cares and wants to support us taking care of ourselves. So coming back around full circle if my partner knows my core values and supports me and supports me in my going for my core values that is that makes a world of difference right? And this and vice versa. You know if I know their core values and I support them in going for their core values even if they’re not the same as mine. That’s really an act of generosity, an act of love. And we feel supported in that kind of a situation.

Steve Hickman [00:36:13]

Yeah. And it still all boils down to the fact that when we feel supported we feel loved. Which is what we all really want. Down underneath all the rest we are humans that need each other to survive and to thrive. And when we feel loved we love. I think it goes it goes both ways and we feel safe. I mean that’s part of it too we feel supported encouraged empowered. You know strong happy satisfied. It’s it’s quite a package when we actually feel loved in the situation and that’s and that can often come at least partially from knowing each other’s core values what’s important to each other and doing our best as a partner to help the partner achieve those things.

Michelle Becker [00:37:05]

Yeah yeah. And doing our best to help our partner achieve those things. Absolutely. Makes lots of sense. Well let me just maybe I’ll ask the question this way which is, you know you just talked about how wonderful it is when we when our partner supports our us and our core values we feel supported and we feel safe and we feel loved. But what do we do when when we feel disappointed in that regard we don’t feel maybe seen or supported in that way? Is there something we can do?

Steve Hickman [00:37:38]

Yeah. And I mean I think it is recognizing that in that moment we are the one who is suffering. As you’ve said in various ways since we’ve taught together you know that sometimes you people get caught up in this like, he did this in or she did that, and there was this and that. Why don’t they. Blah blah blah. All focused outward which is natural for us to look at we can’t see ourselves but we can see he had a person. So all of our venom that are hurt and anger gets gets pointed at the other person over whom we have virtually no control. And so in a moment of hurt if it’s possible for us to say, “wow I’m actually the one that’s hurt” and to tend to that just long enough to be able to be informed by it or just even to just allow it to be here know allow ourselves to to know that we hurt it shifts the whole conversation. 

I’ve been thinking about had somebody who had a tendency to have problematic relationships one after the other and everything would start out nice and then they would feel betrayed or mistreated or disrespected or whatever by other people and they come and they would vent to me about how this other person did this and they did that. And you know this feeling as a therapist it’s about the most frustrating place to be because you’re having a whole long conversation around someone who’s not even in the room and you have no way of doing anything about that person. And it’s so been in them in the midst of one more of these conversations I finally had the presence of mind to pause her, and to say I wish we could stop for just a second. 

And I said Could you just pause and maybe put your hand on your over your heart like this with an open palm? We would do in a self compassionate course and just feel that and you know who is it. I was probably channeling you at this time because I know you’ve said this you know “who is it that’s in pain right now?” And like she looked at me like kind of dumbfounded and paused and then she started to cry and something gave way there because she was actually able to see that for all her preoccupation with the other person and how they may have done something wrong and they may very well have done something hurtful and. Bad and you know whatever but. This is the one who is suffering. And could you start by tending to this one first even if there’s work to be done with the other person. 

Seems to me I mean it sounds quite simple it’s probably the most difficult thing that we do in a relationship I’m thinking is to be able to acknowledge our own pain when we feel it, not because it’s our fault or because we need to fix it or anything else but just because it’s here and then if we’re actually acknowledging its presence and being kind to ourselves then we can respond to it in fruitful ways rather than hurtful ways.

Michelle Becker [00:40:41]

Yeah and it also it takes us out of a position of relative powerlessness. In other words I need you to change your behavior so I stop hurting. Into an empowered position where we can tend to our own hurts regardless of what the other person is or isn’t doing.

Steve Hickman [00:40:57]

And it’s not. I mean just to reiterate it’s not about blame. It’s not about. No about making anybody innocent or guilty. It’s about just acknowledging the reality of the situation as it is.

Michelle Becker [00:41:10]

Yeah yeah absolutely. Oh well so much fun talking to you you know we haven’t been able to travel and teach together lately so it’s fun to you know yeah get to connect around this stuff again.

Steve Hickman [00:41:24]

It’s fun stuff and it’s it’s fruitful stuff. It’s good stuff. So yeah it’s a pleasure.

Michelle Becker [00:41:29]

Yeah. Well thank you for being with us today Steve. It’s been a pleasure to talk with you as always. And for our listeners if you’d like to know more about the Mindful Self Compassion program which is a great way to learn self compassion you can visit the Web site https://centerformsc.org. There are a ton of resources on that Web site; I highly recommend it. And just a little insider tip that Steve is in the process right now of writing the forthcoming book Self Compassion for Dummies which will be out in mid 2021 I believe.

Steve Hickman [00:42:06]

The most ironic title in the series.

Michelle Becker [00:42:09]

Right. Exactly. Exactly. That’s all for today’s well connected relationships podcast. Thanks for being here. I’ve got so much more in store for you. So be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing.