• How Sara defines compassion — and how naturally that comes to us when we witness people “like us” suffering. (1:30)
• How we “other” people unconsciously (and sometimes consciously) and what happens in our brains when we do. (2:50)
• What Wayne Dyer once said on The Ellen Show about the power of teaching children to be compassionate. (4:10)
• The personal and global benefits of cultivating compassion for everyone. (5:00)
• That it’s normal to find practicing compassion toward everyone all the time a challenge — even for the Dalai Lama. (7:58)
• One key way to help overcome barriers to practicing compassion. (8:52)
• What compassion isn’t. (9:13)
• What Sara’s work with prisoners taught her about compassion and how to recognize the suffering of others. (10:34)
• What to remember when it’s not so easy to recognize someone else’s suffering. (11:28)
• How we move from holding compassion as an ideal to something more actionable — and why we should want to. (12:43)
• A good way to train your brain to be more compassionate toward people we find more difficult. (14:09)
• How compassion gives us the power to shift even the trickiest relationships — and the ripple effect that causes in the world. (18:04)
• The importance of tending to yourself when in the presence of other people’s suffering. (18:54)
• The best place to start — the simplest first step — to practice compassion. (23:00)
• The difference between being present to another person’s suffering vs. trying to fix the situation — and why that’s important. (23:34)
• More simple gestures we can all make to cultivate compassion in our hearts and in our lives. (24:54)

Michelle [00:00:04]

Hi, everyone. I’m Michelle Becker and you’re listening to the Well Connected Relationships podcast. In today’s episode, we will be talking with my friend and colleague Sarah Schaier about how having compassion for people can be challenging at times, why that is, and how to handle it when we encounter people for whom it’s difficult for us to have compassion. Sarah is the founder of the nonprofit CompassionIt, whose focus is on how to make compassion accessible and put it into action. She’s also a certified teacher of the Compassion Cultivation Training Program developed at Stanford University. She travels and teaches compassion internationally to a variety of audiences. Sarah has a talent for making compassionate action, simple and practical: a sure sign of expertise in my book. I’m delighted to have her with us today. Welcome, Sarah.

Sara [00:01:54]

Hi, Michelle. Thank you for having me.

Michelle [00:01:57]

What a pleasure. It’s always a pleasure to talk with you,

Sara [00:02:00]

Likewise!

Michelle [00:02:02]

So I have I love this topic and I have a few questions for you. I think maybe a good place to begin would be, especially for our newer listeners, could you talk a little bit about what compassion is?

Sara [00:02:18]

Yes, it’s my favorite topic to talk about, so I’d be more than happy to! The definition of compassion, that I like to share is that it’s the recognition of suffering and then the desire and willingness to take action to alleviate that suffering.

Michelle [00:02:37]

Great, great definition, the recognition of suffering and the desire and willingness to alleviate suffering. That’s that’s fantastic. So how easy is it to have compassion?

Sara [00:02:49]

Well, I think it depends. If you’re having compassion for someone that’s like you or someone who you know well, it can come pretty easily. And the struggle is when we have people that fall outside of that immediate circle, that’s when it can become challenging. So it can be easy and it can be one of the hardest things to do.

Michelle [00:03:14]

Yeah, I’m really curious about this piece you’re talking about, I think what you’re talking about is like our “in” group and our “out” group, right. That the different targets are are more or less challenging to have compassion for.

Sara [00:03:28]

Mm hmm. Yeah. Right.

Michelle [00:03:31]

Yeah. And you know, it’s interesting, that piece of it especially is interesting to me because of the concept of how we can “other” people.

Sara [00:03:42]

Yeah, and we often do that unconsciously too.

Michelle [00:03:48]

Can you say more?

Sara [00:03:49]

Yeah, yeah, I’m happy to share more about that, like I said before, it’s easy to have compassion for someone that you know well or even if you encounter someone that you have similarities with. And our brains can very quickly recognize that we’re like that person, so maybe we look alike or we have something in common that makes me say that person’s like me. It’s easy for me to have compassion. It happens automatically without even thinking about it. And sometimes, though, people will fall outside of that and the part of the out group and our brains might judge them without us even knowing that they’re doing that. So that’s unconscious bias, which I know a lot of us have heard about, especially recently. And our brains aren’t telling us that that person is like us. So the compassion doesn’t happen automatically like it might if it was someone that my brain is saying that person’s like you. You’re going to act with compassion. Does that make sense, do you think that explained it well?

Michelle [00:04:49]

Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you for that. Yeah, I love that that explanation of why it’s sometimes easy and why it’s sometimes not, why would you say it’s important to have compassion?

Sara [00:05:06]

Of course I would say it’s important to have compassion. I started an organization that helps everyone have compassion. So, yes, I think it’s very, very important. And the reason why I think that comes back to why I even got into this field in the first place. And it was a statement I heard Wayne Dyer say back in two thousand and eight, he was he has passed away, but he’s an author and speaker. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him before, but. Yeah, so he was talking on The Ellen Show about compassion and he said it’s the most important lesson to teach our children. Yes, we should teach our kids math and reading. But if we could teach our children compassion, we could solve every social problem on the planet. 

And I could not stop thinking about that statement. And I still can’t because I believe in my heart that that is true, and that’s why I think compassion is so important, because, yes, it’s important for me to have better relationships and I’m a better mother and a better friend and a better daughter and sister because of compassion; and compassion, can create the peace and the changes that we need on this planet. So it’s much bigger than just my own personal life. I truly think compassion is the answer to all of the social issues that we’re facing. Including climate change.

Michelle [00:06:35]

Yeah, absolutely compassion for the planet, for the Earth, and in our last episode, we talked a bit about how we’re all interconnected, interrelated, right. So we really can’t leave anyone out. So, yeah,

Sara [00:06:50]

And once you start living with compassion as your your main value or as your compass, you can’t undo that. I don’t think. You can’t ignore anyone, you see that everyone is like you and you want to make changes and do actions that will help everyone. There’s no more us versus them. I know when I started becoming more compassionate and trying to live this way, I very much identified as more of a global citizen than as an American. And that patriotism that I felt went away. Not that I’m unhappy that I’m an American, but I also feel like I don’t really care where you’re from. I care about you just as if you are a fellow American. It doesn’t matter to me.

Michelle [00:07:39]

Yeah, almost as if it it it morphed into a global identity rather than national identity.

Sara [00:07:48]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, imagine if everyone could feel that way. Yeah, what would happen?

Michelle [00:07:54]

Yeah, yeah, we if we all knew we we belonged and people cared about us.

Sara [00:07:59]

Mm hmm.

Michelle [00:08:00]

Yeah, absolutely. I, I feel so strongly about that myself. Yeah. But what do we do, Sarah, with, um, what do we do with those people for whom we we just find it so challenging to have compassion? You know, and I think there are two categories that come to my mind. And you may have others or a different way of thinking about it. You know, one category for me are the people who have done maybe even horrific things, and it’s hard to see the good in them and it’s hard to have compassion for them. And then I think there’s another category of people, whose suffering is so big and so overwhelming that people can become overwhelmed when they open to that suffering. 

So just curious about the different targets that you think it’s difficult to have compassion for, not necessarily for yourself personally, but for people in general. And I don’t know whatever you have to say about that.

Sara [00:09:05]

Yeah, well, and I agree with you, I think these are two two of the categories that are challenging and. No one ever said that compassion was easy. I mean, we’re born with it, but, boy, it’s really hard to to have compassion for every single person all the time. The Dalai Lama, and this is his life and he struggles with it. So I can’t possibly expect that I’m going to automatically have compassion for everyone all the time, it takes work. And when we’re when we’re talking about people who have behaved in a way that might seem unforgivable or maybe they’ve even done something to hurt me or or hurt someone I know or like you said, horrific things. I think there are a few things that you can keep in mind if your… if you care about compassion and you want if you are hoping to have compassion for everyone, including those folks. There are a couple of things you can do, and one thing that’s important is to separate the individual from their actions. So I can have compassion for the human being and still say, it’s not OK for them to act that way. Compassion isn’t being isn’t condoning someone to hurt others. And it’s also not accepting harmful, harmful behaviors. No, not at all.

Michelle [00:10:36]

No, I really love that you’re pointing that out. That’s such an important point.

Sara [00:10:40]

Yes. So I think people misunderstand compassion in that way, I think. But if you say, OK, you as a human being, I wish for you to be peaceful and free from suffering, because if you were, you wouldn’t act that way. But I’m not going to let you hurt me and I’m not going to let you hurt people I care about or anyone else. That’s not compassion. So whatever I need to do to keep you from harming yourself or others, I need to do that. And I still see you as a human being who deserves compassion.

Michelle [00:11:14]

Yeah, beautiful, and I love this piece about, you know, whatever I can do to keep you from harming myself or others or anyone. And what occurs to me is that when we allow people to harm us, it’s not only harmful for us, it’s also harmful for them because they will live with and feel the ramifications of, “what kind of person am I to have harmed people in this way”? And I bet some of our listeners are feeling that way too.

Sara [00:11:45]

I I think most of us have felt that way. And I’ve done work in the maximum security prison here in San Diego in the women’s jail, and I’ve met people who have murdered others and when I heard their stories of their childhoods, in every single case, I thought, I would be here too! Yeah, if I had that experience, so it’s also important to keep in mind, and I don’t ever say this statement correctly, so maybe you can correct me, but it’s comes from Nonviolent Communication, Marshall Rosenberg. And it’s that something to the effect of every unskilled behavior comes from an unmet need.

Michelle [00:12:30]

Yeah, yeah. Yes, I do. You want to say the right way? I’m not sure I’m gonna get it right.

Sara [00:12:36]

To go something like that. Right. And that also helps me be compassionate because I can recognize there’s suffering there.

Michelle [00:12:44]

Yeah.

Sara [00:12:45]

They wouldn’t be acting that way if they weren’t suffering. And that allows me to give people the benefit of the doubt and it opens my heart.

Michelle [00:12:54]

I think that’s such a good point, you know, that there’s suffering there. We don’t often we don’t necessarily often see that. Sometimes we can look and know. Oh yeah, it looks like they’re suffering there. But sometimes it looks like that person has a wonderful, beautiful life, you know? Full of privilege and whatever. And it’s harder sometimes to see that there’s suffering underneath that.

Sara [00:13:20]

Mm hmm. That’s very true. And then we can remember that they’re human and therefore suffering in some way. And we don’t know what people’s stories are.

Michelle [00:13:33]

Well, I think that’s the point, I think that there there is always suffering underneath it and we just don’t know what the story is, you know, what do they have to give up for them for that privilege? It might be one aspect of it. Um, but nobody who’s happy really wants to hurt other people.

Sara [00:13:53]

Correct? Correct. Yeah, so, yeah. And this isn’t easy. It’s also easier to say these words than to feel that compassion, right? So it’s I think it’s good to understand it conceptually and then it takes practice.

Michelle [00:14:15]

So what can we do? I love that you’re saying that it takes practice. How do we do it? How do we move from that sort of conceptual idea into into cultivating more compassion? And and why would it be important for us to do that? Like, does it benefit them? Does it benefit us? What you know, what do you think?

Sara [00:14:37]

Yeah, well, it benefits all of us to live more compassionately. I know that, if I’m compassionate, for example, let’s say someone has harmed me in some way, and I choose to cultivate compassion for that person. They may not ever know, right, the way that I feel about them, they’re not going to perhaps my actions toward them will change and so it will improve the relationship in some way. But it really benefits me more than. So that’s why it’s important, because I know when I’m living in the world with an open heart and this desire to have compassion for everyone, my life is better.

Michelle [00:15:25]

Right, when we are holding the resentment toward others, it actually there’s a physiological cost to us. You know, the we’re we’re in a chronic kind of resentment. There’s a there’s a physiological stress response that’s that happens that our bodies are not actually designed for.

Sara [00:15:48]

And we’re not going to be as happy too.

Michelle [00:15:50]

We’re not going to be as happy. Yeah.

Sara [00:15:52]

Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. And then as far as how, how so how do we do that. Of course, you and I are teachers of programs that use meditation as as the way to help train the brain. So I always talk about meditation is like taking your brain to the gym. And every time I’m practicing, so what I have done and what I still do is if there’s someone that challenges me, I will practice having compassion for them in my mind through meditation. And what that looks like is visualizing them and imagining them suffering and then practicing, opening my heart to that suffering, being present with it and alleviating that suffering in some way and seeing that suffering alleviated. So this is something I’m training over and over again in my mind. And it has happened to me where I have I have worked with a couple of people in my life and six months after doing that type of practice, they appeared in the meditation as loved ones instead of people who challenge me, like out of the blue. I did not I didn’t expect it. I was like, oh, what are they doing here? 

So I guess I should back up. Generally, we start by kind of priming the heart by thinking of someone we care about suffering because we do it that way. And we also have compassion for ourselves to help open the heart. And you don’t generally jump to the person who challenges you, because I don’t know if the mind might not be ready to go there until after you’ve primed the heart a little bit with compassion for yourself, compassion for someone you care about, maybe compassion for your community, and then you can choose someone who challenges you.

Michelle [00:17:49]

I think that’s an important part. There’s no need to rush through this or to expect that I’m going to have one practice and tomorrow it’s all going to be sunshine and roses, you know, but but really that it’s a process and that we really want to go slowly and develop that foundation, that sort of solid foundation of some equanimity, we might call it; a balanced way of being before we open too much to the to the people who challenge us. So, you know, we go kind of as we’re ready.

Sara [00:18:24]

Right. And I always advise you don’t need to start with the person who challenges you the most. Right. Maybe maybe it’s the colleague who’s kind of annoying that sits next to you in the cubicle or whatever it is. It does it. Lets take it baby steps so you can get used to working, working with somebody who maybe gets under your skin a little bit before you move on. But I know personally that that practice has helped me how I for people who who have challenged me.

Michelle [00:19:01]

Absolutely, Sarah. Likewise for me, there have been people who started off in my, you know, the category that was difficult to have compassion for them, who I actually have become quite fond of. No, I really like a just genuine smile comes comes to my face when I think of the people, I’m thinking of some of them as we’re speaking. So and what what a delight, actually, that I’m not irritated or bothered by seeing that person. I’m delighted instead that’s you know, that’s something when it happens.

Sara [00:19:37]

It really is. It’s unbelievable. And I’ve had students who have gone through the eight week course, Compassion Cultivation Training, who have even noticed shifts, have noticed shifts in that short amount of time. Again, usually, it’s like colleagues or someone that maybe they were frustrated with, and after doing the practice for a few weeks, they they notice a shift within themselves and they will comment about how that has shifted their relationship. Because they. Because they’re acting differently toward this person, which in turn will make that person behave differently. It’s pretty cool. The ripple effect of these practices is tremendous.

Michelle [00:20:16]

Yeah, I love what you’re saying. The ripple effect. So, yeah. How does it have that? How does it ripple outward? What do you want to say a little more about that.

Sara [00:20:25]

Sure. And there’s there is research that, of course, I’m not going to know what study, but I do know that even when people witness compassion happening, they feel this. They have the same. Feelings and physiological reaction as if they were the ones giving or receiving compassion. So when there’s compassion happening, everyone around that benefits, whether you’re giving it, receiving it, or then you are observing it. And, it also inspires you to be compassionate toward others when you witness it or when you receive compassion. So it’s just this it’s like a contagion almost.

Michelle [00:21:08]

It’s exactly the word that came to my mind. It’s contagious. No, absolutely.

Sara [00:21:13]

Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle [00:21:14]

What about those situations where, it just the suffering feels too big to open, to?

Sara [00:21:23]

And I think that’s common as well. And that’s where I think the practice of self compassion is so important, is to be able to recognize that this situation feels so big and you need to ground yourself with the practice of self compassion. Or I know we both are fans of Joan Halifax, she says, to have a strong back, strong back and a soft front. So having that kind of embodied compassion where I am grounded and firm and I’m taking care of myself in the midst of this overwhelming suffering, because if you’re not tending to that, there’s no way you can be present with that overwhelming suffering. And I think it’s OK to know that! We’re not. I and I would actually love to hear your thoughts about this, but. We don’t have to be heroes, right? We can do we have if we have this intention, my intention is to be compassionate and gosh, that’s I’m too overwhelmed and I can’t. I can’t do it, but I can tend to myself and notice what’s happening within me and and work toward being able to be present with that suffering, but we have to be easy on ourselves with this.

Michelle [00:22:45]

Well and compassionate toward ourselves, I mean, I really actually love what you’re saying is we don’t want to leave ourselves out of our circle of compassion, right? And so sometimes we need to toggle back and strengthen the foundation again a little bit more, you know, sort of like, OK, not ready for that. But, you know, what does it feel like to be a person with a good heart who wants to be compassionate but but doesn’t feel completely able to do that? That’s a moment of suffering for us, right? And could we meet that with some kindness, with some understanding that that’s that’s also part of the shared human condition, you know? Right now, I think a lot of our health care workers who are really burned out in fatigue, caring, you know, the demands of caring for people who are hospitalized and dying or are skyrocketing again. And they’ve not had a break for a long time. And so it’s hard sometimes to have compassion for others if we are feeling, you know, kind of used up, burned out, dry. So I really appreciate what you’re saying about the importance of toggling back and offering ourselves compassion.

Sara [00:23:58]

Mm hmm. Now, it’s it’s a requirement, it has to be part of compassion. We can’t keep going. It’s just it’s not sustainable.

Michelle [00:24:09]

Yeah, the idea is not to become a compassion machine.

Sara [00:24:15]

We should look into that. The compassion machine might be the next great invention!

Michelle [00:24:21]

I don’t I don’t know. It sounds like it’s leaving a little humanity out or something, you know, like I’d rather be, you know, fully human. Right. Fully human.

Sara [00:24:31]

I’m not saying us, I mean, maybe we can create some sort of machine that somehow I don’t know, but we can talk offline about this. But we maybe we might be on to something here.

Michelle [00:24:42]

All right. Well, I’m open to hearing about the possibilities. That’s funny. That’s great. Oh, so so we’re not we don’t always have we don’t always feel, as we’ve been talking about. We don’t always feel compassion naturally toward others. Sometimes sometimes we do. Sometimes it flows quite easily. But we don’t always some some targets, if you will, are going to be a little bit more challenging. When we do feel those kind feelings, how do we move from having kind feelings, you know, maybe looking at another person and thinking, you know, may you be may you be happy or may you’ll be free from suffering, into actually and helpful action. A compassionate action.

Sara [00:25:37]

Mm hmm. Well, I think there’s no one right answer to that. I think oftentimes people think that a compassionate action needs to be some sort of big, elaborate act. And I, tell people just being present with someone, being fully present with someone is, gosh, one of the best things you can do to offer compassion.

Michelle [00:26:05]

It really is.

Sara [00:26:06]

I think starting there, just being present with someone, maybe a smile, and you don’t it doesn’t need to be something tremendous. And I also love what I’ve learned from John Halifax’s having humility as we’re practicing compassion. So if people think they need to do this big act and they think I know how I’m going to fix why you’re suffering, right, I have got the answer to your suffering. We don’t! I don’t know what you need…

Michelle [00:26:36]

Yeah,

Sara [00:26:36]

Michelle, But I can be present with you and maybe I can ask you. What you need and offer my compassion in that way without assuming I know how to help you.

Michelle [00:26:50]

Beautiful. Yeah, because when we move into trying to fix somebody that’s actually resistance, we’re resisting. There’s the opening to their suffering, right? Trying to get rid of their suffering in order that they don’t feel bad. And we don’t have to feel it either, right? So that’s resistance. But when we’re present with people, we are, I mean, truly present in an accepting and friendly kind of way, then then people are not alone anymore. It moves us into the Care System where compassion lives. So I really love what you’re talking about that. That actually truly, our kind and compassionate presence is sometimes the only thing that we need.

Sara [00:27:34]

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And that looks like putting your phone away. Maybe that’s the act. Put your phone down and just be present. Yeah, it seems like now these days, that’s that could be the simple act you do.

Michelle [00:27:54]

Mm hmm. Yeah, or meeting somebody’s gaze who. Who what doesn’t often see who? Well, that’s really going to need an edit. Or meeting or meeting someone’s gaze who society doesn’t normally see, not just meeting their gaze and giving a smile, you know, this kind of idea. I see you and you matter.

Sara [00:28:20]

Yeah.

Michelle [00:28:21]

You know.

Sara [00:28:22]

I love that I do. And and just keeping your eyes open for ways that you can do that throughout the day, ways that you can show someone that you see them.

Michelle [00:28:36]

And go ahead,

Sara [00:28:38]

As I say, it’s neat to see what will what unfolds when you have your eyes open in that way. Opportunities to do have do small gestures. And how that makes you feel when you do?

Michelle [00:28:51]

Now do you have an example of of one?

Sara [00:29:14]

I think even a small act when I’m traveling and I’m on an airplane and I see a mom with little kids in a stroller and she and her partner is not with her, I’ve been there. And so can I hold your hold your child while you get the stroller or can I help you with the stroller or can I carry your bag for you? Just small, little things like that, that I know that when you’re alone and traveling, traveling with children, you don’t necessarily want to ask people to help you, especially because you think these people are probably upset that there are going about to be babies on this plane. But opening my eyes to situations like that where that person could use help and they’re probably not going to ask for it, but maybe I can carry a bag.

Michelle [00:30:03]

Maybe I can carry a bag or some emotional support, know whatever arises. Like, I think in the last podcast, I thought maybe maybe it wasn’t that one. I’m not sure. Anyway, I told the story of, you know, being in an airport and with a mom who was overwhelmed, just overwhelmed with her kids. And the difference it made when when I stopped judging her parenting and I just said to her, it’s hard, isn’t it? I had three kids, too. And it’s hard sometimes. And just that little bit of emotional support seemed to really shift everything.

Sara [00:30:42]

Validation goes such a long way.

Michelle [00:30:45]

Yeah, a Little bit of validation.

Sara [00:30:48]

Beautiful.

Michelle [00:30:50]

Yeah, and I really appreciate this point you’re making, Sarah, about that, the real compassionate, so we cultivate having compassion in our hearts so that when it meets suffering, then it and it stays kind, then we just have to be with that person and then we see what unfolds. We let the situation unfold and it becomes clear what’s compassionate and sometimes it becomes instinctive, what’s what’s compassionate.

Sara [00:31:20]

Yep.

Michelle [00:31:21]

Rather than having this idea that I’m some compassion machine and I know the right thing to do and every in every situation. Right? Mm hmm. Because I don’t know about you, Sarah, but I sure don’t.

Sara [00:31:35]

No, not at all. And I loved I Joan Halifax led an exercise that I was a part of a couple of months ago, and it was just a guided practice where she had you imagine being with with someone you care about while they’re suffering. And she would ask questions and you had to answer, I don’t know. So what is this person feeling? I don’t know. How can you help? I don’t know. And that was a powerful exercise for me because I. I don’t think I’m a compassion machine, but I think sometimes I think, oh, I can tell by what they’re what they look like or whatever, what they’re feeling, and really the bottom line is I don’t know.

Michelle [00:32:22]

Right.

Sara [00:32:22]

And that’s OK. I don’t need to know to be present with them.

Michelle [00:32:27]

Right.

Sara [00:32:27]

And to offer them compassion in a wise way. So I just love I think that that’s something that’s… for me, a new a new part of compassion to to talk about more. Which is this this idea of being humble and not thinking, not thinking, we know.

Michelle [00:32:50]

Well, and really what a relief that would be anyway, right? You don’t have to know. Oh, thank goodness, I don’t have to know. I just have to care.

Sara [00:33:01]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. That’s and that’s really what it is. It’s caring. It’s caring about everybody.

Michelle [00:33:09]

Yeah.

Sara [00:33:11]

Yeah,

Michelle [00:33:12]

Yeah, I think that’s right, that’s the just the base of it, you know. I don’t have to know. I just have to care. I have to care about everybody. Because really, the truth is when we see that we’re all connected and we see that people who have difficult experiences often then exhibit difficult behavior. Uh, and so we wish for and we help people with those difficult experiences, the difficult behavior subsides.

Sara [00:33:44]

Yeah, it’s pretty cool.

Michelle [00:33:46]

Yeah, you also, Sara, mentioned healing the planet. You know that compassion is important. You want to say a couple of words about that as well?

Sara [00:33:53]

I would love to. Especially climate change is in the news a lot these days with all the different catastrophes happening around the globe with weather events. And I first want to point out compassion for the planet is actually having compassion for humanity and of all other living beings. The planet’s going to be fine. The earth, no matter what, the earth is going to be here. However, if we care about, our fellow humans and we care about the other animals and plants on this planet, we need to act in a way that, curbs carbon emission. Mayor. 

That’s the bottom line. I mean, it’s taking care of each other and we say it’s taking care of the planet, but I think we need to recognize I’m doing this because I care about all other humans and I care about the animals that live here with us.

Michelle [00:35:02]

And future generations.

Sara [00:35:04]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And as a mother of a 14 year old and she and her generation, they are worried about this. Yeah, they are worried about this. And I don’t I don’t blame them. And they’re angry. They’re angry that they’re they’re facing this and it’s not their fault. So I I think considering the planet is one of the number one actions we can take if we care, if we want to be compassionate people, we need to act every day. Our actions need to be considering, “how does this impact the planet?” And that means how much single use plastic am I using? What am I eating to contribute to climate change? And I’m guilty of this air travel. I mean, obviously, this past year there hasn’t been a lot of that. But airplanes pollute the atmosphere in a major way. Right? Do we have to be flying? Is it something that we can do remotely? 

There’s a I’m not an expert in this field, but I do know that every day I try to take actions that are helpful and not harmful for the planet. Yeah, matters to me how much am I consuming? I’ve tried to buy my clothes from thrift stores because they already exist, right? Anything we buy, we need to think, can I buy it used? It’s already here on the planet. Can I just use that? Because as my friend Jonathan Zeidman, who is he works for The Ecology Center, a nonprofit in San Clemente, and he said this to me years ago and I’ll never forget it. But he said when we throw something away, we need to realize there is no “away”. It stays here. Yeah. It’s not going anywhere, it stays on this planet.

Michelle [00:37:05]

Yeah. That’s true.

Sara [00:37:09]

Obviously, I get a little fired up about about this topic because I think it really matters and it’s not something that we talk about much in CCT, in compassion cultivation training, and it’s something that matters to me. So I try to incorporate it into the programs that my teammate Borell and I do.

Michelle [00:37:31]

Absolutely, well, it’s part of taking care of each other, really, it’s just broadening, you know, we talked earlier on you talked earlier on about, you know, our in in group on our out group. Right. And part of what we do in compassion cultivation training is to expand the in-group, you know, who who we see as our in-group. We say just like me, just like me. This person wants to be happy, just like me. They don’t always put their best foot forward and such. Right. And so what you’re really talking about now is really expanding that beyond challenging people to the planet. You know, like how do I include all of plants and animals and all the generations to come in my act of compassion? Yeah, can it be all in my in-group and of course, you know, we’ll be better at that at times than others, we were we’re still human, so we’re still going to fail. But trying helps.

Sara [00:38:32]

It does. It’s good to have that intention. Yeah, and to be conscious, right, at least bring awareness to your actions and consider how is this impacting the planet. Instead of just moving through life blindly and not considering that.

Michelle [00:38:50]

Yeah, yeah, makes lots of sense to me. I just have one more question for you, Sarah, because I’ve heard you tell this story before and I like it. How did you come to to, how did you come to found uh, CompassionIt and tell a little bit about the wristbands?

Sara [00:39:09]

OK, great. Well, I already sort of spilled the beans on the genesis of CompassionIt. It came from that talk, that or that interview of Wayne Dyer on The Ellen Show back in 2008. And during that time, I was I was a mess. I was a total wreck. I was going through the hardest time of my life. I was going through a divorce. And my daughter was only a year and a half old. And if anybody remembers two thousand eight, I had I had quit my job to be home with her. And so I needed a job and there were no jobs that I could not get a job. So I was I was devastated. I suffered from anxiety and had lost like twenty pounds. And I’m not a very big person. I was it was scary. It was a scary situation. And while my daughter napped, I would sit on the couch and watch TV. That was kind of how how I spent my time. 

And at that age, they nap a lot. So I spend a lot of time watching daytime television, which turns out to be a good thing, because I caught this Ellen episode and Wayne Dyer was on it. And when he said that about compassion, I couldn’t stop thinking about it. And that night the word compassionate became compassion IT. It in my mind. And I saw it in black and white as a bumper sticker. And I thought, that is super cool. That’s clever. It’s like, just do it or Google it. This makes compassion a verb, an action. And I right away Googled it thinking. Like, I wonder if anybody else has thought of this before. Probably so. And I was shocked that if someone had come up with it, they hadn’t done anything with it. So I got the trademark for stickers or bumper stickers, but then I postponed that for three years. It took me that long to get my life back on track. 

And during that time, I compassioned it, I practiced this idea and I realized, wow, when I act this way in the world, whether it’s with my ex-husband or if I finally got back to work, so whether it was with a client or a manager. When I bring compassion into the mix, things go more smoothly and my life is better. So I thought this is a powerful statement that needs to get out to the world. So I started making stickers and that turned the t shirts and I felt like, you know, it’s not it shouldn’t be just a brand. It should be a movement. And one of my very good friends who’s in marketing, Sherri Wilkins, said, if you want to start a movement, you probably need to sell something cheaper than a 30 dollar organic cotton t shirt. What about like a Livestrong wristband type of thing? And I’m like, those are lame. I’ve never worn one of those. No way. But then that night I was like, hey, I wonder if I could find one that’s two sided so you could flip it over every time you compassion IT or when you do an act of compassion. So I was I found a vendor and made these wristbands that are black on one side and white on the other. And when you do your act of compassion, you get to reward yourself by flipping the wristband. So it’s not just a wristband says I support a cause. Right. You might see people with a pink wristband and you’re like, oh, that person cares about breast cancer awareness, this one. So, yes, I care about compassion. And it also reminds me I’m I need to act with compassion today.

Michelle [00:42:33]

Yeah.

Sara [00:42:33]

They’re actually creating action, which makes sense because compassion, it also makes compassionate action. So the response, I guess the first shipment of wristbands appeared on my doorstep on my birthday, May 10th, 2012. For all your listeners out there, if you want to wish me Happy Birthday, May 10th, which was cool that they arrived on my birthday and then. Maybe six months or so later, someone had sent their wristband to a YouTuber in England who had hundreds of thousands of followers on her YouTube channel, and she did a little thing a little bit about her CompassionIt wristband. And literally overnight, compassionIt became a global movement because we had teenagers from around the world ordering.

Michelle [00:43:22]

Fantastic. Yeah, that’s fantastic. I love it.

Sara [00:43:26]

That’s how it all started. And then I got into it wanting to learn more and got into the program at Stanford to teach compassion.

Michelle [00:43:34]

To teach compassion. And I’m so glad you did because you do such good work in the world. You really do.

Sara [00:43:40]

And so, yeah, that’s the story of the wristbands, I guess you asked about that, too. So we sell them in pairs so that you wear one and share one. And we also have a self compassion version that’s red and white so that you can also remember to practice compassion for yourself. Thanks to you, might I add, we have a little compassion version because you were the one who insisted you need one. It’s not just for, you know, you need one that actually says, Self compassion. And I was adamant at first like, oh, you don’t need that. You can just flip your compassionIt wristband said, no, no, no, we need a separate one for self. So grateful. of us.

Michelle [00:44:16]

Some of us can have a more challenging time remembering to practice for ourselves, than for others. So actually, Kristin Neff’s research is like seventy eight, seventy nine percent of us, its compassion flows more easily toward others than toward ourselves. So thank you for that for that population. For those of us who have that challenge, we appreciate the self compassion.

Sara [00:44:40]

Well, thank you for the idea and for the nudge, I appreciate it,

Michelle [00:44:46]

Sarah. It’s been so much fun to talk to you today. Really. I always enjoy talking to you, as I’m sure you already know. But so thank you for being with us today. If you’d like to know more about the program Sarah offers or you’re interested in the wristbands, you can find her on her website, compassionit dot com. She also has a 30 day compassion challenge with simple steps you can take to to cultivate compassion.

That’s all for today’s Well Connected Relationships podcast. Thanks for being here. If you’d like to get our notes on the highlights of this episode, along with a simple practice you can use for cultivating compassion for people for whom you find challenging. Be sure to join our well connected relationships community on the Wise Compassion website. I’ve got so much more in store for you, so be sure to subscribe. So be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing.