• Why compassion is not just important for our personal wellbeing, but also for our collective survival. (1:47)
  
  
• The little known truth that Darwin’s later work was not about survival of the fittest, but survival of the cooperative. (2:31)
  
  
• Why Michelle says the same is true for our personal relationships. (2:55)
  
  
• Why compassion seems harder to practice than it really is. (3:36)
  
  
• What happens when people confuse empathy with compassion. (4:45)
  
  
• Why showing up with kindness feels much better to you and other people than trying to fix someone’s situation does. (5:04)
  
  
• How telling someone to “take the nail out of their forehead” doesn’t offer the relief you think it will – and what works better. (6:35)
  
  
• How a woman disciplining her 3 kids at an airport taught Michelle that just showing up with kindness can shift everything – and is so much easier than we think. (16:27)
  
  
• Simple things we can all do to practice compassion on the daily. (18:32)
  
  
• When sending someone a cat video counts as compassion. (21:29)
  
  
• When setting a boundary or standing up for yourself or someone else counts as compassion – and a story about Sara’s young daughter doing just that. (30:30)
  
  
• What Sara sincerely hopes happens when you read her new book that comes out in January. (33:55)

Michelle [00:00:00]

Hi, everyone. I’m Michelle Becker, and you’re listening to the Well Connected Relationships podcast. In today’s episode, we’ll be talking with my friend and colleague Sara Schrier about how to make compassion easy and effective. Sara is the founder of the nonprofit Compassionate, whose focus is on how to put compassion into action. She’s also a certified teacher of the Compassion Cultivation Training Program developed at Stanford University and an adjunct professor at San Diego State University. Sara has a talent for making compassionate actions simple and practical, and has written a book that makes the case for compassion. Her book, A Case for Compassion, is due out in January of 2023, and her TED called Compassion — It, was just released. I’m delighted to have Sara with us again today. You may remember her from her earlier podcast about having compassion for difficult people. Welcome, Sara.

Sara [00:00:54]

Thanks, Michelle. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Michelle [00:00:56]

So, Sara, you’ve written this book about, you know, a case for compassion. And I guess that’s maybe a good place to start. Why is compassion important?

Sara [00:01:09]

Well, you and I have both been in this field of compassion for many years. I guess it’s been a decade for me. I’m very passionate about this and could probably take up the whole podcast talking about why I think compassion is important. But to keep it brief, compassion is important for, frankly, our survival. We need to take care of each other in order to make it in this world. But compassion is important for our personal well-being. It makes us healthier and happier. And it’s really important for our relationships. We need to learn how to take care of each other properly and take care of ourselves at the same time. So I think compassion is vital for any of us to lead a fulfilling, happy, content life.

Michelle [00:01:56]

Well, as you know, I very much agree with you, Sara. No surprises there. And, you know, I’m I’m struck by that, that first line of that compassion is important for our survival. And what it brings to mind is this, you know, Darwin’s theory of evolution and how really it’s not survival of the fittest, as people have reported or maybe his earlier works looked at. But in his later works, he talked about survival of the most cooperative. That the cultures who take care of each other are actually the cultures that survive. And I would say that’s probably true in our, you know, in our different systems, but including our families, in our relationships, you know, the relationships where we can count on taking care of each other, showing up for each other when times get hard, are really more likely not just to survive, but to thrive.

Sara [00:02:50]

Yes, absolutely. I agree.

Michelle [00:02:53]

Yeah. So I really appreciate that. What what would you say is, you know, what would you say gets in the way of compassion for people? And, you know, here I’m not thinking as much about some of the misgivings of compassion that we ought you and I know you talk about and you talk about that in your TED talks as well. But really, what really stops people from compassion?

Sara [00:03:17]

Well, I do think that people you know, we’re not taught how to have compassion in our society. And so people think that it’s too hard to show up when others are suffering. Right. And we really aren’t aren’t taught how to be present in the midst of suffering, whether it’s our own or someone else’s. And without that skill, without having that modeled for us or taught to us, it I think that really that gets in the way more often than anything is just the idea that, I don’t know how. I don’t know how to do this. It hasn’t been modeled, I haven’t been taught. What do you think? That’s that’s kind of what comes to mind for me.

Michelle [00:04:03]

Well, I agree with you. I don’t know how is a big one. Also, this idea you’re talking about that it’s hard that it’s going to be difficult and that when we open to other people’s suffering, which, you know, is the foundation of compassion, that we’re going to suffer a lot in the process. And I think people get confused about the difference between compassion and empathy. You know, this of resonating with the suffering of another person, whereas compassion brings a kind and loving response when somebody is suffering and it feels different, doesn’t it? Don’t you think? To being in a state of empathy or being in the stress response and being compassionate?

Sara [00:04:50]

Yeah, and I do want I just say, you’re right. People think that it’s hard. And like I said, I think they’re not taught how to be present with suffering. But what people don’t realize is you just have to be present. Right. You don’t have to fix the problem. Compassion doesn’t imply that you’re you have to fix everything. Right? All you have to do is have this willingness to be present for that person or for yourself during this time of struggle. You don’t have to have the answer.

Michelle [00:05:19]

Yeah.

Sara [00:05:19]

So I think I think making sure people understand that part of compassion is really important.

Michelle [00:05:25]

I think it’s really important. I’m so glad you mentioned that because, you know, often we have a hard our hardest time is in being present. That is the big block. And so we go into fixing as a way of getting rid of the pain, which when you’re the person that’s being fixed, instead of having somebody just be present with you, it feels like they’re getting rid of you rather than, you know, in the process. You’re just inconvenient. They don’t want to be with you. So they just tell you, Hey, go do this. And problem solved, right? It just doesn’t feel as good as somebody just standing with you in the midst of it, just being present with you. That affiliative system that gets activated when we’re just with somebody in a kind and caring way. The presence that you talk about.

Sara [00:06:11]

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And I. I always think about that video that you shared with me a long time ago that “it’s not about the nail” video where the couple is sitting there on the couch and this woman has a nail protruding from her forehead. And and, you know, she’s complaining about this headache. And my sweaters are getting snagged and the husband is like, well, maybe if you took the nail out of your head, she’s like, it’s not about the nail. You know, she’s asking for him to just be present, right? And he’s like, Oh, I’m sure you remember exactly what you said. It’s something to the effect of like, Oh, I’m sorry you feel that way. That must be hard, right? And that’s all she wanted. And she’s like, Oh, thank you. Right. And it’s such an extreme example, but it’s true. If you’ve ever been with somebody who has that skill of just being being there for you and not trying to jump in and fix the problem, that’s the person you go to, at least for me. That’s the person I go to when I have a problem because I know that they know how to just be. They have that skill.

Michelle [00:07:14]

I agree. And then it feels good. That’s, by the way, for our listeners, Sara’s referencing It’s Not About the Nail by Jason Headley, and you can look that up. It’s a great video. I highly recommend it. But yeah, that’s what we really are looking for, where we’re just looking for somebody who’s kind of grounded and present and kind ah, who cares about the fact that we’re having a hard time.

Sara [00:07:37]

And I can say that that skill has helped me with my the friendships and relationships in my own life. I know that I feel like I am a very good friend. That’s one of my that is a skill that I can own. I’m proud of that. And it’s because I have learned how to compassionately listen. You are a good friend, Sara. I thank you.

Sara [00:07:59]

Thank you.

Michelle [00:08:02]

So you know, this piece of you’re talking about that people are really just wanting our presence and we’re talking about it from the angle of the person who’s, who’s struggling, who’s having a difficult time, and they just really want presence. But there’s this other piece of it, too, which is how it feels for us to be able to be present in that way. In other words, to have a compassionate presence versus being caught in the stress response or our drive system trying to get out of pain. What is it like? What would you say it’s like to open with compassion and be present?

Sara [00:08:41]

I always think about I think Kellie McGonigal talked about this, that one of our Compassion Cultivation Training teachers retreats, this byproduct of compassion that we get, and it’s this warm glow. And if you if you either do compassion meditations or you practice it in your daily life, that’s the feeling that you get. This oxytocin that floods your system. And it feels it just feels good. You feel, again, content and more connected to the people around you. Compassion engages the parasympathetic nervous system, which helps us feel calmer and again allows us to be present.

Michelle [00:09:26]

Right? Right. It does. And it engages that affiliative system too, Right. And that’s what helps us engage that. That’s what turns on that parasympathetic response. Safety is arriving and everything can settle and calm. I like the way Tanya Singer talks about the difference between emotion contagion, how we catch each other’s feelings like somebody is angry with you and all of a sudden, even though you’re perfectly happy, you’re angry back, you know, caught their emotion, right? And she says a step up from that is empathy. Empathy, she says, is emotion, contagion, plus the sense of a separate self. In other words, we know, oh, I’m feeling anger. But it’s not my anger. It’s your anger. Right. And that little separation helps. And she says and a step up from that is compassion. She says compassion is empathy plus love. So we feel the other person’s distress and we hold that in a larger container of I care about you. And so when you’re talking about how it feels to be compassionate versus just in the stress response, that warm glow really is love, right? We’re in that state of caring about somebody and we all know how good it feels when we care about somebody else.

Sara [00:10:45]

Yeah, that’s a that’s an interesting point about Singer’s work because I wouldn’t make the assumption that empathy. I think oftentimes people get caught up in empathy and don’t realize that it is the other person. The other person stuff, right? Right. That’s the empathic — So that turns into empathic distress. I know. And that’s why self-compassion is such an important.

Michelle [00:11:08]

Well, that’s what she would call emotion contagion when we don’t have it. We just caught the emotion.

Sara [00:11:15]

I think.

Michelle [00:11:16]

Empathy. She’s saying we have a separate sense. We have a sense of separate self. In other words, it’s yours, it’s not mine. So there’s a little bit of space there. But still, we’re resonating with suffering, resonating with suffering, resonating with suffering. So, yeah, you know, empathic fatigue for sure. When we had that compassion piece in that kindness piece, that caring piece, that changes the way it feels for both of us.

Sara [00:11:42]

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So.

Michelle [00:11:45]

Yeah.

Sara [00:11:45]

Great. That’s great.

Michelle [00:11:47]

So one of the things I love about you, Sara, is you have this gift in my in my experience, you have this gift of really, you know, cutting through all the theories and the whatever and just going straight to that, like the simple, easy to access practices, you know, like how do we actually practically do this in our lives? Not in a way that feels like a burden, like we have to take on a lot more, you know, stuff to learn, but in a way that actually feels empowering and feels kind of like a relief. Oh, it’s just that? I can do that. And it helps? You know, I guess I’m kind of setting you up here, Sara. Apologize for that. But are there some simple, easy to access acts of compassion that come to your mind?

Sara [00:12:32]

Yes. Well, the first one, which we’ve already spoken about, is just being present and listening. Mm hmm. I don’t think people realize that it’s as simple as that. Just listen. No need to reply or respond. Just be there listening. Put your phone away. Shut your laptop and be present and listen. I think that is one of the best things we can do when we’re in the midst of suffering. 

And then when I think about sort of everyday actions we can take. I think almost all day long we can make simple choices in our lives that that inclined toward compassion and helping others, whether it’s directly helping someone or alleviating suffering or indirectly. And what I mean, for example, I think about shopping. Shopping for clothes, right? You could go to the mall or you could go online on Amazon and purchase clothes and maybe you’re like, Oh, I found a really cute dress for ten bucks on Amazon. Gets shipped to me for free, whatever. But did you think about what is the where did the fabric come from and what’s it made up of? What’s going to happen when you’re done wearing it? How does it impact the planet? Who made that garment right where they paid? Well, I think the $10 dress. I can guarantee you that person who made that dress was not paid well. All right. So there are things like that. So I try to purchase clothes at thrift stores or there’s an online there’s a website called Threadup.com where you can purchase used clothes. And that is one simple thing that you can do in your everyday life. I think my wardrobe is fine. It’s I’m not like a fashion model by any stretch of the imagination, but I purchase used clothes and I think it doesn’t really matter. So something like that is easy to do. 

Or when I go to the grocery store, I don’t put every vegetable in a plastic bag. Mm hmm. I will place the broccoli on the conveyor belt as is, and wash it thoroughly when I get home. Because why do we need all this plastic? Right? Or I guess they also sell bags, reusable bags that you can put your vegetables. But being mindful of things like that. Right. What’s your plastic consumption when you get takeout food? Right. Or when you’re shopping? Just these very small actions. Right. Bring a to go coffee mug and choose plant based foods that aren’t as harmful for the planet. I think it’s these these simple things we can do throughout the day that really can add up.

Michelle [00:15:10]

Yeah. And I like that you’re, you know, that you’re talking about this stuff, but those, those things are important and they’re, you know, part of looking at how we participate in the systems of, you know, that are not compassionate or help the systems be more compassionate. But I’m also curious, you know, when you see when you’re going about your day and you see somebody who’s having a difficult time, whether you know that person or you don’t know that person, you know, like I’m thinking about, you know, walking past somebody who’s sitting on the sidewalk and maybe with a sign looking for something, you know, do you make eye contact or do you smile at them or, you know, like, are there or just you see somebody who suffer, you know? 

I think I’ve told this story before on a previous podcast, but I think about this time when I was sitting in the airport in the waiting area, waiting for my flight. In this a little bit away, I could see this mom with three small children and I was at one point a mom with three small children, and she was being rather harsh with them. You know, they were stressed and she was stressed and she was just being a little rough with them. And, you know, the first thing that came to my mind was a little bit of judgment about that. I was worried and some judgment. But, you know, then my compassionate practice kicked in and about that time, a seat opened up close to her. And I went over and I sat in the seat close to her, and she looked at me and I looked at her and I said, Oh, I said, You have three little ones. I said, I remember when my little ones were were little like that, something like that. And she looked at me and her whole face and body softened and she said, Oh, then you understand. And then I softened and a little bit too. Right. Because I did understand how difficult it could be at times to have three little ones, you know, under the age of five, I think. You know, and then as we talked and as she felt like I was with her, she softened. And all of a sudden her children are climbing in her lap and she’s kind of gently stroking them and kind of cuddling them. And they’re sense she’s settling and they’re settling. And that, you know, that was nice. I didn’t do anything big there. Right. It was just a simple, easy thing that I saw someone who was suffering and I showed up just like you’re talking about it with this sort of kind presence and some understanding. And it shifted everything.

Sara [00:17:48]

And and that’s the kind of action that you can take nearly every day. I mean, if we’re really opening our eyes to the people around us, you can see that some people are struggling and even passing by and making eye contact and smiling. Who knows what that can do for someone? Yeah. But I do think those are that is a very beautiful example of showing up in a simple way, and it does make a big difference.

Michelle [00:18:17]

Yeah. The thing is, I think it doesn’t we think it’s going to be so hard, you know, like, I didn’t take away her suffering. I didn’t. You know what? As we talked, she talked about she was just coming, trying to get home. She’d had some flight delays. She was trying to get home from a visit with her, from a visit with her family. And that had been a really stressful visit, you know, and so I didn’t solve her issue with her family of origin. I didn’t solve her issue with her flights. Right. I just sat next to her and was kind to her. And I not even you know, I was I wasn’t extraordinarily kind. I when I went over there, there was still judgment remaining and it really shifted everything.

Sara [00:19:00]

Mm. Beautiful, beautiful.

Michelle [00:19:04]

So that’s kind of what I’m thinking, that we think sometimes that compassion has to be. So, as you were saying earlier, like, you know, we have to solve the problem. We have to work. But. But maybe not. Maybe just as you were saying, just showing up. Being present. Being kind.

Sara [00:19:21]

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And I’m thinking more these days, too, that I’m not as I’m not out in the world as much as I used to be. Now that things have moved more remotely and I’m home. I’m home on my computer a lot more than I used to be. And there are still ways that I can connect with people over Zoom. And, you know, you can make an effort instead of diving right into that meeting, which we are, where we all have agendas, we all want to get things done and we have more meetings coming up and work to do. But taking the time to pause and ask the person you’re meeting, how are you? Yeah, how’s it going? And genuinely caring about you. And we have to deliberately do that. We have to intentionally carve out a little bit of extra time to connect as humans. But I think we we need to do that. It’s harder to do. I think now that we’re I can speak for myself, now that I’m not in an office with people around me, I have to be more intentional with asking those questions because it just doesn’t come up as naturally when I see their face on Zoom. But that’s another thing that we can do is add these online connections, try to incorporate some care and compassion.

Michelle [00:20:41]

Yeah, I love that you’re saying that. And you reminding me also when I was teaching a Compassion For Couples course in person a few years ago, one of the women lit up and we were talking about something similar and one of the women lit up. And she said and she was an M.D., I think, and had a really I think maybe she was even in resident, I don’t know, but clearly had been very stressed at work. And she said her partner had sent her this really silly cat video and it just cracked her up. And it was like that was like the act of compassion for her because she, you know, paused and pulled out her phone and pulled up the video so we could all share this Cat video, you know, silly cat video. But just that act, just that simple, sending a text he sent her, he knew she was stressed and that she find this thing funny and he sent her a funny text. It’s kind of what you’re talking about. Can we remember each other and can we reach out in a simple way?

Sara [00:21:42]

Mm hmm. I love that.

Michelle [00:21:45]

Yeah, I. It was it stuck with me, obviously, so.

Sara [00:21:50]

Yeah.

Michelle [00:21:52]

Well, one of the things I’m thinking about, Sara, I’m curious about and I think, you know, I know you’re so good at this and also saw you do a practice in your TEDx that helped your TEDx talk that helped. But are there some simple, easy to access practices that can prime us toward compassion flowing more easily for us? So what I was seeing you do in your TEDx was a variation of, you know, just. Just like me.

Sara [00:22:20]

Mm hmm. Yeah. So inviting people just to consider. You can look at a stranger, somebody you don’t know. Maybe you’re taking a walk and you pass by someone you don’t know and just consider. Yeah, I don’t know anything about that person. But just like me, this person wants to lead a fulfilling, joyful life. And just like me, this person is stressed. Might be going through something challenging right now. And when we when we consider that every single person we encounter is just like me, in that way, the compassion can more easily flow. And I can say I wish for that person to. To be happy and lead a fulfilling life. And that helps me feel connected to this stranger that I normally wouldn’t be connected to. So you can do that as a meditation practice. But I think even just moving about in the world, you can do that, exercising your mind. They are just like me. That person also struggles, so I’m going to smile at them because who knows? They might be having a hard day.

Michelle [00:23:27]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Sara [00:23:30]

I also think about I do and I know a lot of your listeners have probably heard of Tonglen or you’ve talked about that on this podcast before. But I think about breathing in the suffering as I’m passing by, people not knowing who they are, but knowing it doesn’t matter who they are. They’re worried about something, right? I can pretty much guarantee that that person is worried about something. So I imagine that worry is like kind of this dark thing around them. And I breathe it in and it transforms into light and warmth and then I send that out to them. And that’s something I do when I’m walking on the boardwalk. I live in Mission Beach, so I just kind of breathe in suffering and breathe out compassion as I’m walking on the boardwalk. I particularly love this practice when I’m traveling and I’m in a busy airport where people for sure are stressed out and I feel better when I do this practice, when I’m feeling stressed, I when I begin doing that practice, I feel more connected to the people around me and that makes me feel more at ease and people. And I get that warm glow. Yeah. We talked about earlier. So that’s a simple thing you can do, too. And you don’t even if you don’t want to deal with breathing and the suffering, you can just breathe out, send out your compassion as you’re going along. That’s something easy to do.

Michelle [00:24:55]

Mm hmm. Yeah, I love that. And, you know, it’s interesting to me because that practice of breathing in suffering or breathing in the darkness or the smoke or whatever, you know, however, people visualize that, often people are afraid of that, because it feels like I already have enough distress. I don’t want to breathe in other people’s distress. Right. And I but I also really appreciate the way that you’re talking about it, because what you’re saying is that you’re experiencing the warm glow when you’re doing it. So I think that that what that really points to is. A couple of things. One is that we have to be in we ourselves have to be in a good state in in a state of care. Like that Tonya Singer thing about empathy plus love. We have to have that love, that buffer of love burning brightly. And when we do, it doesn’t create a lot of distress for us to to take in somebody else’s distress, because that buffer is stronger, so to speak.

Sara [00:26:00]

Well. And I know Roshi Joan Halifax talks a lot about being grounded, and I think that’s important to write. I, I need to feel grounded myself. If I am, if I’m not, if I’m in distress, that’s not a good time for me to be trying to alleviate other people’s suffering. Right. I need to feel grounded and stable and steady myself.

Michelle [00:26:23]

Absolutely. And I think that that points to this other piece of it that I’m thinking about, which is we have to include ourselves in the in the equation. You know, and I know you you name that in your TED your TEDx that we do have to include ourselves. We have to so we have to discern, you know, where am I right now? How much do I have to give now?

Sara [00:26:46]

That’s my boundary setting is so important. I feel like that needs to be talked about more and I have to protect myself, right? I have to set this boundary and say, you know what, I don’t have the capacity for this in this moment. This is what I can do. But I don’t have it in me to go beyond that. Whether it’s the amount of time or attention or emotional availability, I need to know that within myself and set limits, because if I don’t do that, then I will burn out.

Michelle [00:27:21]

Right. I think that’s really important. So, you know, just to underline what you’re saying, what you’re saying is boundaries are also compassionate.

Sara [00:27:29]

Mm hmm. They are. There are. People don’t realize that.

Michelle [00:27:34]

And you’re talking about boundaries are compassionate for us. And they are. But also boundaries are compassionate to the other person. Because when we don’t and this reminds me a little bit of Miki Fine’s people pleasing, you know, when we do things that that are not okay for us the in it to do something nice for somebody else it fosters this sense of, I don’t know, resentment, irritation or whatever toward the other person. Right? So it really and then that’s not really compassionate. We’re fostering irritation towards somebody else. Right? So really, you know, pulling back and having some taking, including ourselves in the equation and having some boundaries is compassionate for both people, even if the other person isn’t getting what they wanted at this moment.

Sara [00:28:24]

Well, then I always think about something else too, that every time I’m practicing compassion for myself or others, I’m modeling that for other people. So if I’m setting a boundary and the person sees that and at the same time showing them that that’s possible, and maybe that’s a skill that they can also nurture. Mm hmm.

Michelle [00:28:47]

Yeah, absolutely. And especially I know you’re raising a daughter. You know, this is not in our culture. This is not how we’re raised as young girls and as women. We’re not, we’re raised that our value is in taking care of others and that we don’t really that it’s not right for us to take care of ourselves often. So not exclusively, but often. And so, you know, what you’re saying is you’re setting a different model for your daughter and for others that says, actually, I can only take care of others if I take care of myself.

Sara [00:29:21]

Yeah, that’s true. And I think that modeling this is way more than me trying to tell her how to do it right. She’s learning much more by watching it in action as she’s been growing up around compassion and self-compassion.

Michelle [00:29:38]

Yeah, you know. Yeah, well, our kids learn a lot more from what we do than from what we say.

Sara [00:29:43]

Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, the other day, she was around a friend that was around her age, a family member or a family member who is also a friend. But she, the person asked, said something kind of rude to her and she said, you know, you didn’t need to speak to me that way, you know? And I was so proud that she did that because she didn’t she wasn’t mean about it. But she called out, “Hey, you don’t need to be rude to me. You don’t need to speak to me that way.” And I know that I could hear myself saying, you know, she’s a teenager. So I say that to her quite often, is, hey, you don’t need to speak to me that way. And so it really pleased me to hear that she had that skill and she felt confident enough to say that I wouldn’t have done that if I would not have stood up for myself in that way.

Michelle [00:30:37]

Right. Well, and even as adults, often we don’t. So it’s really that’s really great. How wonderful to to get to see her do that in action and know that this was exactly what you were just talking about, which is you modeled for her. You gave her permission to set a boundary in a compassionate way.

Sara [00:30:56]

Yep.

Michelle [00:30:56]

Because allowing other people to harm us, you know, compassion is conserved with the prevention and alleviation of harm. And allowing somebody to harm us just isn’t compassionate. So what a beautiful way to to work with that. What a great example. Thank you for sharing that.

Sara [00:31:12]

Oh, my pleasure. I’m glad it came to me just now.

Michelle [00:31:15]

Yeah, yeah, me too. So, Sara, you’ve written a book about compassion. Can you tell us a bit about your book? What’s unique about it? Yeah, what makes Compassion more accessible to readers?

Sara [00:31:28]

Well, it’s it’s kind of funny because I went into it thinking I would write about this idea that compassion-it where we’re trying to make compassion easy and simple and a part of everyday life, thinking it would be almost like a self-help personal development type of book. But as I’ve been doing this work more and more, and as I sat down to write the book, I have felt I felt this pull to write more about systems and less about individuals. Because I recognize A) we’re products of our systems. And B), it’s really hard to practice compassion and self-compassion within systems that that don’t allow for it. Right. Or don’t prioritize it. 

So we can go to a do a training at our workplace and say, hey, this is how you practice compassion and self-compassion. But if the workplace isn’t set up in a way that you can actually do that, if if you have if you don’t have protocols and procedures that allow for setting boundaries or the time to take care of each other, it doesn’t matter if I go in there and do a training for your team if nothing’s going to happen, if the institution and the system doesn’t allow for compassion. So I decided to shift gears and write the book about systems. So I’m examining no big deal: i’m just looking at education, health care, law enforcement, corrections and the workplace and sharing stories of a why we need compassion in these systems and then providing examples of compassion within these systems and why things work much better and outcomes are much better when compassion is prioritized. 

So it’s been really fun for me because I’ve learned a lot as I’ve been writing the book. I’ve interviewed a lot of people going to research, and of course every single one of those chapters really deserves its own book or series of books. I can’t solve the problems that are within our within each of these systems in this book. But my hope is that the reader will be inspired and see how compassion actually really does matter. I think compassion sometimes people think it’s like a nice to have thing or yeah, that’s kind of like this fluffy ah, add — on, but it’s not vital for our society. But my hope is that this when you read this book, you realize, wow, if, if we prioritized compassion in these systems, our society would thrive and we then could all be more compassionate in our individual lives. Because our systems would allow for it.

Michelle [00:34:08]

Well, I think, you know, this time, more than any other time in my life, I really aware of how much we need compassion. No, it’s just there’s so many different so many different issues that were that are swirling around us right now. And compassion is desperately, sorely needed. So I’m really glad you wrote the book and I’m really looking forward to reading it, Sara. I think it comes out in January, right?

Sara [00:34:37]

Yes, it will. And I’m still in the I turned in the manuscript. And so there’s still a lot of revising and editing to do, but it should be published in January.

Michelle [00:34:47]

Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. And congratulations. I know firsthand how challenging the whole process can be. So that’s that’s wonderful. Also, you just released your TEDx. You did a TEDx about compassion called compassion-it. And that just got released. What’s your favorite part about that talk?

Sara [00:35:09]

Oh, man, that’s a really good question. I almost think that the end; the little calls to action. I was speaking to college students and so I was trying to help them think of ways to to be compassionate in their everyday lives. So, like, if you if your professor is grumpy, cut her some slack and be nice, right? Or if you’re stuck in traffic and somebody cuts you off, remember, they just might be in a hurry. So I think that my hope is that those these small calls to action are what people will remember moving forward. I mean, it was it was fun to do, but also in 18 minutes, there’s just it’s not a lot of time. There’s so much I wanted to share and do. And I watched other TED talks on compassion and try to try to put a different kind of spin on it so that it would be something unique and new, kind of a different way of looking at compassion.

Michelle [00:36:06]

Well, I love that you’re saying that, because it just takes me back to what we were saying before about, you know, are there simple, easy to access acts of compassion? And those were all examples of that. Right. Just considering, you know, my my husband laughs at me sometimes in a kind way because you will be driving along and somebody will cut us off. And now he looks at me and he goes, I know they have somebody in the hospital. They’re trying to get.

Sara [00:36:33]

You know.

Michelle [00:36:35]

Some sort of kind take on it. Like, you know, I might tighten up and just think that person’s just a jerk, right? I’m not that I don’t also do that at times. But, you know, I feel much better when I can say to myself, you know what? Maybe if I were in those shoes, you know, maybe his wife is in labor giving birth and he’s just trying to make it to the hospital, you know? And if I were in those shoes, maybe I would be that way as well. You know, it really just changes. So. These are these small, easy to accessible, easy to access ways of being more compassionate to really. Brene Brown calls that generosity assuming the best in the other person.

Sara [00:37:16]

Well, and I have to say, one of my favorite examples. I worked with a I think he a sophomore at UC Santa Barbara, where I gave the talk. He was sort of my coach leading up to the talk. And so I gave the talk to him. And he and he had this example that he he thought of that he thought I should share, which was if you and your parents aren’t seeing eye to eye, right? So I’m talking to college students. And if you and your parents aren’t seeing eye to eye, remember that they don’t know you as well as they did when you lived at their house and that might be hard for them. Yeah. And if you that beautiful it is. I mean, what an awesome way to look at that. And I know I thought, you know, kind of brings tears to my eyes because I think of my daughter leaving and changing and being different than who she is now. Of course, we all grow over time, but that probably is hard as a parent. But to have that wisdom as a college student, I was really impressed by this student who thought of that.

Michelle [00:38:17]

Absolutely. Yeah. Wonderful. And yeah, really, really appreciate that. So any final tips for our listeners, Sara?

Sara [00:38:28]

Oh, gosh. Just compassion-it! Compassion. Right. I think just if we can all live our lives keeping that in mind, life will be a lot sweeter for everyone.

Michelle [00:38:43]

Absolutely. And, you know, I would add that compassion isn’t really a burden. It’s a blessing. And, you know, can we look at it through, you know, simple ways, simple, easy to access ways. So anyhow. Oh, well, thank you so much for being with us today. Sara, it’s always a pleasure to talk with you. And today was no exception.

Sara [00:39:05]

Oh, likewise. Thank you, Michelle!

Michelle [00:39:08]

If you’d like to know more about the program Sara offers or you’re interested in her compassion-it wristbands, which we didn’t talk about, but where you flip the wristband every time you do something compassionate, which helps you to remember to be compassionate. You can find it on her website, compassion, hyphen it dot org. And she also has an evergreen course on compassion. So you can find that there as well. 

That’s all for today’s Well Connected Relationships podcast. Thanks for being here. If you’d like to get our notes on the highlights of this episode, along with a simple practice you can use to make compassion easy, please be sure to join our well connected relationships community on the Wise Compassion website. I’ve got so much more in store for you, so be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing.